FatFreek 2005

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Posts by FatFreek 2005

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  32

  Pioneers and Their Way of Counting "Time"

  by Eiben Scrood in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the congregations in my area there was an expression to the effect that 'there's counting time and then there's the way pioneers count their time'.

  the watchtower's guidelines were pretty strict on when time could be counted.

  some pioneers followed it and others didn't.. on particularly motivated young man comes to mind, he would work full-time or close to it and pioneer.

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  FatFreek 2005

  
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  12

  Illegal immigrants scam the IRS out of 4 billion dollars

  by moshe in

  1. social
  2. current

  it's great to be an illegal at tax time--.

  http://www.wthr.com/video?autostart=true&topvideocatno=default&clipid=7054149.

  $1000 tax credits paid out for nephews, nieces and cousins in mexico who never set foot in the usa- get refunds over $10,000, no problemo for pedro..

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hi Moshe,

  One irony that exacerbates this illegals mess is Watchtower and it's obvious to me why they're doing it. Illegals in the U.S. are a big factor in keeping membership numbers on the positive side.

  The following scenario happened recently in a NE Tennessee congregation but my gut feel is that it is happening repeatedly throughout the U.S.

  A candidate for baptism goes to the elders with a confession, wanting to have a clean conscience for his momentous dedication moment. He admits that he is an illegal alien but that he loves Jehovah and wishes to do the right thing. The elders tell him that he should listen to his conscience -- but whatever he decides is between him and Jehovah. If he decides to stay in the U.S. he will be considered a brother, with the exeption that he will not be allowed priviledges of responsibility in the congregation (carrying the mike, etc).

  Let's examine this at a bit more depth. Here's a person breaking one of Caesar's laws. JW's say they are bound to such laws as long as they do not contradict God's laws. As far as I know the U.S. laws on immigration do not contradict God's law.

  This person went to the elders confessing to be a practicing lawbreaker. How so? By remaining in the U.S. he was perpetuating his unlawful practice.

  Perhaps more egregious, the elders were, in effect, accessories to the fact and accessories after the fact. They were turning a blind eye to a lawbreaker. Oh -- they knew he was a lawbreaker. Recall, they were withholding congregation priviledges because of that fact. They were, in essence, setting themselves up as a tribunal of sorts -- one having more power and authority than the laws of the U.S. They were punishing this new brother with their own home-grown discipline.

  My non-JW son learned of this and asked one of the elders for his rationale. His answer oozed with anger, insulted that he had been asked such a question.

  "We are not the police. We are not the police. We are not the police!"

  I think it's obvious that Watchtower (I don't think these elders did this on their own) has made a judgment call on which of Caesar's laws they think are okay or not. If these elders had been approached by a confessed killer, a rapist, or a person making his living as a burglar, or someone at the head of some Wall Street pyramid scheme -- their answer would have been different. They would have properly acted as responsible citizens.

  Len Miller
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  110

  On The Art Of Fading

  by expatbrit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in october of 2000, i faded away from the watchtower.

  like most people, i have family and friends who are jw's (including my wife and parents).

  fading is generally the best method for people in that situation.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hi nicsfreedom,

  I truly understand your concern and feel for you and your spouse. Over the years there have been many discussions about publisher record cards. One even claimed that he personally requested it and it was given him to turn over to the next BOE. He simply forgot to do that last step. I'm not sure if that was true or wishful thinking. However, the following is a link to many similar discussions here. You'll just have to dig your way through to see if anything looks promising.

  Len
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  58

  An email sent to me- we are reallly close to the end

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  subject: short illustration regarding the "cowbird"hello, we recently dedicated our remodeled kingdom hall here in los angeles , and our guest speaker was bro.

  javier hernandez from brooklyn bethel.

  bro.

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  FatFreek 2005

  
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  58

  An email sent to me- we are reallly close to the end

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  subject: short illustration regarding the "cowbird"hello, we recently dedicated our remodeled kingdom hall here in los angeles , and our guest speaker was bro.

  javier hernandez from brooklyn bethel.

  bro.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Nanosecond still leaves wiggle room as there are some 5 units that are even smaller. Come on, JW's, it can't be more than a yoctosecond away.

  Units of a second as found on Wikipedia

  centisecond

  millisecond

  microsecond

  nanosecond

  picosecond

  femtosecond

  attosecond

  zeptosecond

  yoctosecond
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  23

  Scans of WT vs. bound volume: Paul saying work finished "by end of 20th century" changed to "in our time"

  by tomrobbins in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  hello, looking for the actual scans.... i have looked through the search function here on jwn but can't find the actual scans of the magazine that states something like: "paul said that this preaching work will be finished by the end of the 20th century" and then scans of the bound volume of that same issue where the wording is changed to something like: "paul said that the preaching work will be finished in our day".

  there are the direct quotes available in the jwn search but i'd really like to have the actual scans of the pages.. does anyone have the pdfs that they could post?.

  my jw mom was ripping on the mormons for changing their doctrine in printed word the other day... so this would be interesting to have on hand if she brings stuff like that up again.. thanks!.

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  FatFreek 2005

  How about a quotation from your mom's own WT Library CD? If she doesn't have one, she needs to get one. It surprises me that they haven't changed the CD version.

  Shortly, within our twentieth century, the “battle in the day of Jehovah” will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. Know Jehovah (book) 1971, chap. 12, p. 216 par. 9 “Until He Comes Who Has the Legal Right”

  Note how close it was to 1975.

  Len Miller
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  6

  Hardcopy Help! Where can I find some?

  by okage in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've got pdf's of certain watchtower publications, but i need the hardcopies to back up my argument.

  it's annoying when you show a witness the jw.org website, download the pdf of the watchtower study issue in front of them, and they argue that you have no point because apostates tampered with the file.

  mind you, it's on a wt/ccjw server, so i don't fathom how any apostate can tamper with it.

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  FatFreek 2005

  That has been found to be true in the past but I suspect that it is rare now. The reporting of those instances always seem to find their way on this forum and plenty others.

  Since we're now in the days of the modern computer with ease of searchability by Watchtower critics, the Society is extremely vigilant at minding their P's and Q's, knowing fully well that they won't get by without someone making a stink about it. They don't wish to be caught in any more tampering than what has already happened. Yes, that is speculation on my part. Others may disagree.

  If you do find suspicious quotations in one of their website publications this is the place to speak out. Those of us with WT Library CD's will be more than happy to quote from that source so you may compare. Also, since you probably won't be able to obtain one of the CD's at a Kingdom Hall make your wish known here, preferably with a separate thread just for that purpose. That will get someone's attention and you'll probably be able to get one for yourself. If that doesn't work, send me a PM.

  Len
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  6

  Hardcopy Help! Where can I find some?

  by okage in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i've got pdf's of certain watchtower publications, but i need the hardcopies to back up my argument.

  it's annoying when you show a witness the jw.org website, download the pdf of the watchtower study issue in front of them, and they argue that you have no point because apostates tampered with the file.

  mind you, it's on a wt/ccjw server, so i don't fathom how any apostate can tamper with it.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Here's a tip that may save you many dollars. Forgive me if you've mulled it over before.

  Buy yourself the latest WT Library CD. Make sure "the Witness" buys one also. That way you're both on the same page, so to speak. If you don't attend the Kingdom Hall I'm told there are copies available on eBay and elsewhere. If "the Witness" is in good standing one should be available at the Kingdom Hall.

  This way, downloads from jw.org are not really necessary. If he suspects his own copy he has mental issues. If he finds that your copy and his copy are different -- then he has a strong argument that there has been tampering.

  There may also be strong arguments that you may want to share with your friend that are in online essay form -- like THE GREAT WATCHTOWER CONTRADICTION. It's an 11 minute read that is designed for ones that are newly interested in Jehovah's Witnesses. It gives them compelling evidence why they should think twice about getting involved with them -- from some 25 quotations of Watchtower literature that are found on the WT Library CD. Even for long-standing JWs it poses several questions that they would not want asked during their next door-to-door venture.

  I wish you all the best,

  Len
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  69

  "some were led to believe that the end would come in 1975"

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last week a young elder giving the public talk made.

  the statement that "some were led to believe that the.

  end would come in 1975, but aren't we so thankfull.

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  FatFreek 2005

  Hi Leo,

  That is classic Watchtower, the ability to spin one thing into something totally different.

  

  Enjoy, Len.
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  69

  "some were led to believe that the end would come in 1975"

  by Sour Grapes in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last week a young elder giving the public talk made.

  the statement that "some were led to believe that the.

  end would come in 1975, but aren't we so thankfull.

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  FatFreek 2005

  The 1975 fiasco was eerily preceded by a similar one precisely 50 years earlier, the 1925 fiasco. Recall that 1925 was the crux of the "Millions will never die" campaign with accompanying booklet and speeches. That hype had begun in the teens (see any similarity to the late 60's?)

  When 1975 approached, it's understandable that the governing body must've been a bit nervous. It appears that they instructed their writers to launch a pre-emptive strike within the pages of the 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses -- ... er, just in case 1975 didn't bear out what they had strongly implied.

  It's clear from those 1975 yearbook pages that the Society hadn't changed. Again, instead of making an apology over what Watchtower publications had said about that failed 1925 prediction -- and more important, those sleight-of-hand phrases -- they made a conscious decision to publish a blurry recollection -- an obviously inaccurate one -- by a devoted, yet elderly, member.

  ". . .So, as Anna MacDonald recalls: '1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed ... Instead of it being considered a 'probability', they read into it that it was a 'certainty', and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection." 1975 Yearbook, p. 146.

  The '75 yearbook couldn't have solicited a better testimony about that disgraceful episode of times past. Here, the blurred reminiscence of this innocent elderly person would serve Watchtower's purpose far better than taking a few steps into the vast Bethel library to copy an exact -- yet more important -- honest reference from issues of Zion's Watch Tower.

  Pre-1925 Watchtower issues had never stated the word probability in its writings -- that lone woman did it for them. By quoting this person, Watchtower skillfully and willfully endorsed her error, knowing it would serve its purpose -- that of perpetuating Rutherford’s cover-up. Oh yes -- blaming the flock for "reading into it" was Rutherford's invention. The 1975 Watchtower followed suit, preparing the modern flock into accepting blame for "reading into" what had been said about 1975.

  Rutherford’s cover-up now became a Knorr/Franz cover-up. Clearly, this 1975 rehash turned into a well-orchestrated and pre-meditated lie.

  New York Yankee's catcher Yogi Berra said it quite nicely, "It's déjà vu all over again".

  Len Miller